IN THIS EPISODE:

After 22 years of marriage, Nicole found herself questioning her sex life and wondering if she wanted to be married at all. Like many women, raising children, supporting her husband, and putting everyone else’s needs first had left little room for her own desires and pleasure. In this episode, she shares her journey through low libido, intimacy struggles, and feeling disconnected from her sexuality.

Through the Doing It Together program, Nicole discovered she didn’t have to choose between marriage and personal freedom. She shares how creating emotional and sexual safety, communicating her needs, and reclaiming her pleasure transformed her relationship.

REFERENCES:

Janna’s Programs: Doing It Together, Wanting It More Foundations, Intro Videos for Men & Women

LISTEN TO THE FULL EPISODE:

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Ep 213 (00:02.31)
I feel like I’ve been through so many different routes, been through trauma therapy, been through nervous system therapy, and really feel like I’ve done I tried so many, so many things and had that conversation so many times, like, you know, I he needs this and I am not providing that. And you know, he would say it in a lot nicer ways, but when it comes down to it, that’s ultimately what it is.

Janna here with an announcement. As many of you know, I am reworking my offerings to implement some of the feedback I’ve received over the years, and I have some very exciting things coming in the new year. So if you’ve been thinking about taking my programs on your own or with your partner, please make sure that you are on my email list and receiving my emails to get all the updates. You can go to jannadentonhowes.com/email to sign up. Link is also in the description.

Welcome back to the Doing It Together podcast. Today, Kari is joining us. Look at her beautiful smile on the other end of Zoom that you all can’t see. But you do get to hear her voice. So, Kari, why don’t you share a little bit about yourself before we get started? Yeah, thank you so much for having me, Jana. I’m Kari. I am 27 years old and I’m living in Colorado in the United States right now. We’ve got a youngin’ on the podcast. Look at this glue.

Kari, what was it like when you were growing up? Did your parents talk about sex? No, definitely not. It was definitely a taboo topic for me and always something that even if I share with them today, they would never bring it up again and ask how we’re doing. Right. What about in school or with friends?

a little bit with friends, but kind of the pressure conversation, you know, like, have you had sex yet with your boyfriend? have you guys done it yet? How how is he? What’s it like? What does he look like? More stuff like that. Like interesting and i interested and intrigued rather than like getting any sort of information at all. Yeah, absolutely. Correct. So where would you say you got your early information from?

Ep 213 (02:24.066)
Definitely from movies was where I got any of my information from. I grew up religious as well. So I went to a group Catholic personally. So I went to classes every Wednesday after my regular schooling. And we talked about marriage and children and not about sex. So I got that information and then I saw movies. And that’s where I got all of my information from.

Right. And did the fact that there wasn’t anything around sex, did that say anything in itself to you? Yeah, it definitely did. It said that it was something I needed to hide, something I couldn’t be open about, something I definitely could not share with my parents at all. something I probably really shouldn’t even be sharing with my friends in conversations me and my friends shouldn’t even be having. which yeah, it’s really unfortunate.

Yeah. So what were your first experiences like? Yeah, I was young when I lost my virginity and I had had sexual trauma before that, but when I decided I wanted to lose my virginity, I did it not for the right reasons, not because I loved my boyfriend. You know, I did it because I was with somebody and there was pressure there to have sex and

it was really uncomfortable my first time, definitely wasn’t a fun time. I remember the conversation being like, this is what happens, this is what you expect. there was a conversation between me and my first partner. at least that was there, but it was definitely something that was painful and not really something I did out of love at all. So there was some pressure there to

get going with it. Yeah. You know this concept of losing your virginity. I don’t know much about that. Like it it wasn’t something that I grew up thinking about. Was that was that sort of talked about within the church that you were in?

Ep 213 (04:42.542)
Not so much in church. it was kind of more of a purity thing, more of like we wanted to stay pure. They would, I don’t think, ever say the word virginity in the church I grew up in. it was more like you wanted to save yourself for your partner, which was it’s really hard to think about that now because that’s like just making a woman an item for s a man to have once in their life, once they’re married.

so yeah, it was more of like staying pure so that your partner could you could have everything with your partner. yeah. The church was definitely tough. Was that tricky then when you had sex outside of marriage? Yeah, absolutely. in the Catholic religion, you go to these you don’t get confirmed until 11th grade. So you’re

16, 17 years old when you finish going to these churches church classes. you go all the way throughout high school pretty much. So I was having sex and all you know, I was doing all that. I had multiple partners by the time I had gotten confirmed, which is definitely super not what they want in the church. And it was really tough. You know, I was one person on Wednesday night and a different person every other day of the week.

even the day of I would leave my boyfriend’s house and go to my church class. so it was really, really tough. although I do think I know I wasn’t the only person in church that was doing the same thing. so that was a little bit that made me feel a little bit better. and yeah, yeah, I don’t remember too many great experiences from my church classes, honestly.

Are you still a practicing Catholic? I’m not. I really I did it for I I I did it for my grandma and my grandparents. Really, their religion’s very important to them and that’s awesome. And so did I got confirmed eleventh grade and I haven’t decided to practice freely in my own time, but maybe someday I’ll come to a different religion. Yeah.

Ep 213 (07:03.192)
You know, I’ve thought a lot about this ’cause there’s you know, there’s a lot of different beliefs and what’s right or wrong, it doesn’t really matter. It’s kind of what you w want to do in your life. But this can this issue can often get in the way of our relationship with God, our higher power, our creator, because then it sets this sort of shame guilt cycle that makes us kind of feel avoidant. Did that happen to you as well? Yeah, absolutely. And

It I also went through kind of a tough time. All of the the roughcomings of the Catholic Church and their sexual allegations all came out when I was going through that. So it was really it was honestly really confusing because I was learning a bunch of things from people who weren’t acting the way that they were teaching. so it gave me a really interesting perspective, but I think that’s what kind of made me start questioning in the first place.

and you know, that also had a lot to do like with I have multiple brothers that were in the church with me and like, you know, where your brain goes, like, so definitely had a lot of sexual.

information come at me through the church, but it was all very, very, very confusing. and a lot of it was hidden. But the time that I was in the church, I was old enough to like start asking questions and hear these things. And definitely like before I had gotten confirmed, I kind of had decided that wasn’t a path I was going to follow. so yeah. Yeah. It’s so good to just see with her own eyes and hear with her own ears.

Absolutely. Wherever path that leads us, that’s I think a really good place to go. yeah. So how did things then progress after that phase of your life? Yeah, I went, I actually so I had trauma in sexual trauma in my life, and I was hypersexual for a bit throughout high school. and then I moved out of my hometown for college, and things kind of went the exact opposite. I started to, you know.

Ep 213 (09:16.994)
be with somebody and it would be really fun and exciting. And a month or two later I’d be like, okay, this is pretty boring. And I’d move on. And I thought I was just young and, you know, 19, 20, 21 years old. Like thought, you know, that’s just what people do. I’m just a young woman being sexual. And maybe it’s a newer idea, but I would just, I thought, you know, that’s just how it goes. And then I

would find myself in longer relationships, people that I really enjoyed their personality, wanted to spend more than two months with them, you know? and I remember like there’s a few people in my life that I chose to just stay friends with them because I enjoyed them so much as person. And I kind of knew like if we went the sexual route, I would get bored of them and then you know how you’d break up and you wouldn’t talk again. And these people felt more important to me. So

I just stayed friends with them. and really like that’s kind of the first things I can think of when I was starting to have like issue. Like I would start to think that I was broken or maybe something was a little bit wrong. Like, why can’t I relationship like a normal person? Maybe like, am I gonna grow up? type feelings. then I found myself in a long relationship.

Like, I mean, well, it was long for my life term, you know, I was 20 something early twenties and it was like a two-year relationship. So it was the longest relationship I had ever been in. You know, we had moved in with every we’d moved in and everything and met the parents, met the grandparents, like pretty my first real serious relationship. And you know, I probably three or four months in, the same thing happened. I was uninterested sexually, and then

There’s a constant fight and then there’s pressure. And you know, this partner didn’t like really reacted really poorly and didn’t have an awesome reaction. And I think led to like further trauma in my life. and really what that taught me was, you know, I was like, okay, maybe different partner will be different. I just haven’t found the one. and, you know, I was like, well.

Ep 213 (11:39.638)
Maybe he just sucks and I’ll find the one and it’ll be different. And then went through more partners. I tried different genders. Like I really was like, I I really need to figure out what’s going on. Like, why am I just, you know, I was like, I’m not a bored person in other areas of my life. Like I find something I enjoy and I kind of stick with it. and that’s how I am in a lot of areas of my life. And

I’d find myself in relationships and I find myself with people in my life that I want around forever. And so I knew that like I want a relationship like that. I was ready for to settle down and everything and meet somebody. And I was just like, man, maybe it’s just not gonna work for me sexually. And then I met my partner who I’m married to now. We’ve been married for what three and a half years now, but we

Got married really early. We met on the internet, pretty typical for people our age. Met on the internet and got married pretty early within a couple months. skipped a lot of really important conversations, had a lot of growth in our relationship, had a lot of roller coasters, but I’m really grateful. and I think I I I do think I’ve gotten lucky. I always tell my family like I wouldn’t recommend anybody to do it the way I did it, but it

Got lucky for me. so yeah, my partner, and it was awesome. And I was like, this is gonna be different. He’s the one, like everything, like he’s perfect, you know. I couldn’t ask for anything else. Boxes checked, like X boxes I didn’t even know I needed to be checked were checked. and locked down, right? We are married, we’re doing the thing, life together. Let’s get a dog, let’s get a house, like all the things. And

gosh, it was three or four months into it, and I was starting to feel like, bummer, I am not feeling a very sexual really at any points in time. Focusing on my career, focusing on life, paying the bills and dogs, and really just trying to flourish in life. and I struggled a lot with mental health. but really it had been like

Ep 213 (14:02.668)
I was twenty-five and I this had started to happen with my husband. So that had been five years. And then by the time I started doing it together, I’m twenty-seven. So been seven years. And it’s been, yeah, me and my partner, I can’t even say how many conversations, the same conversation, actually, how many conversation we had countless times. And just I wanna be a good one. I wanna be everything my husband is because he’s everything to me. Like I wanna be.

that awesome to him. and like, you know, I felt maybe I don’t need sex, but he does. So I want him to be happy too, you know? a lot of like really felt the duty sex thing. Went to therapy. I tried supplements. Like I’ve tried so many, I feel like I’ve been through so many different routes, been through trauma therapy, been through nervous system therapy, and

Really feel like I’ve done I tried so many, so many things and had that conversation so many times. Like, you know, I he needs this and I am not providing that. And you know, he would say it in a lot nicer ways, but when it comes down to it, that’s ultimately what it is. So yeah, it was really hard and stumbled upon your podcast and was really excited for the next round to open up and we signed up. So yeah.

wow, what a story. Looking back now at the boredom piece, because I hear that from other people too. What do you think that’s about? I think it’s a lot of doing the same thing every time in the bedroom. you know, there’s never anything really new and exciting. I think once two people figure each other out, that it’s

It’s just I don’t know. I I thought that I I thought that I got bored personally, but I don’t know if I have the same opinion anymore. Yeah, like I have been wondering because I’ve been hearing this from other people too. I wonder if it’s a safety issue because in order to explore and be curious and try new things and experiment and and make mistakes and then adjust and have conversation, you need to have tons of safety. Yeah.

Ep 213 (16:24.32)
And when, you know, my my first long term relationship, his solution to my little libido was, you know, to have sex every other day instead of every day. And so when you have pressure like that on you to perform every other day, there’s there’s no way that there’s the safety there to explore and for me to have an okay time, you know.

There’s the I I agree. I really do think that it’s a safety issue. And that’s why I said I don’t know if I have the same opinion now about it being really a boredom piece. Yeah. as much as a safety piece. And it’s it’s crazy how many people don’t know that. You know, we all walk around not knowing it. Yeah. And yeah, I

I think because it’s uncomfortable to say I may not feel safe with somebody you love and you trust and you’ve chosen to be your partner. Yeah. And yeah, and and to say that feels yeah, so wrong. Like you’re you’re doing something. Yeah. That not absolutely. It’s a big word. It’s a big word, yeah. To use it in a relationship that is inherently supposed to be safe.

Is really hard to use. It’s the right word, but it’s a hard word. And I know I’ve heard that a hundred times on podcasts already. So looking back at your ex earlier experiences, you said you had a period of time where you were hypersexual, which is very obvious, you know, you’ve done a lot of therapy. That’s a very common reaction to trauma. was there any and then you went through a period of

Of maybe feeling bored or maybe just not feeling connected to it. Was there any a time where you felt it your sexuality was for you, that you were curious about your own body? No, I’ve never felt that sexual experiences were for me ever. And my first sexual experience was not my decision. And so it my first like it was taken from me from the beginning. So I’ve I’ve never had that. I’ve never had safety and

Ep 213 (18:34.218)
I’ve, you know, through therapy, I’ve learned that like I think that I am able to be super sexual people in the honeymoon phase, so they say, because they’re new in my life and exciting. but then once I get to know somebody, it’s then I don’t feel safe and comfortable with them to keep exploring and continue on with things. so yeah, I’ve I’ve really never felt like it’s for me.

at all ever in my life. and I’m I’m grateful that doing it together has helped me see that it can be for me too. Yeah, wild, hey, that sex could be for ourselves. Yeah. You know, I think we have this tr I’ll s see if you you agree with my theory as well, is that in those early days of a relationship, is it ex excitement

You know, excitement and fear are so similar. You sometimes you can’t even really tell the difference. And sometimes when I hear people say, I I get butterflies, you know, it’s like, Is that a good thing? Do we do we want, you know, our nervous system is so activated when we’re around somebody? And so it’s almost like, is it excitement around sex or is it tinged with fear? Well, absol I think it’s absolutely tinged with fear because you

don’t know that person. So every new thing you’re doing, you’re like, is this crossing this might cross a boundary? Like, ooh, can I do this? Can I do that? Are they okay with this? Are they okay with that? But in our culture, we don’t actually say it out loud. We’re just saying that all in our head and then doing the actions and hoping hoping that someone will say that they’ve crossed a line when they’ve crossed a line. But it oftentimes doesn’t come out. Yeah, no com let’s not talk about it. That is we’re not allowed to talk about sex. We’re just allowed to do it in

dark and just grope around and s see if things fit together. Maybe they don’t or not. Yeah. What did your conversations look like or sound like in your relationship when things started to break down in your sex life? Yeah, my husband said a lot of like he doesn’t feel loved. and he doesn’t feel like

Ep 213 (20:57.1)
You know, he said, All your boxes are checked, well, like mine aren’t. and he would say things like that. and he would also say, like, hey, I really want like I want this, I want you to enjoy it. I want you to be into it. Like, if you can just tell me what you need, then then that’s awesome. Like, I’ll do whatever you want. Just like lead the way. like, what does that even mean? Yeah, yeah.

My husband loves to fix as well. So there was a lot of recommendations. and pretty early on I had to tell him like, Hey, I need you to not do any recommendations. Like, I just I can’t do recommendations. That’s just it’s if I don’t think of it, I’m not gonna like it. I could think of the same thing and like it. And he could have told me two months ago to do that and I wouldn’t have liked it until I thought of it. So yeah, definitely had to tell him to no recommendations, but that was a thing early on.

But it was really, he was really sad. He ended up just being sad. and we are were three years into our relationship and it was kind of to the point where like, what else is there to try? Like what what what do we do? and when you’re young, I think it’s an easy not when you’re married, but I think it’s an easy path to say, okay, well maybe we can start with someone else.

maybe if we like split and go down a different path, it’ll be a little easier. we I wouldn’t have this problem in it like in a different relationship. I probably would, but my husband may not have this problem in a different relationship. so yeah, it started to get really sad before doing it together. and really felt like we were running out of options, kind of. Did you just did you discuss separating?

Yeah, we’ve we’ve definitely discussed separating because of our intimacy issues, so we used to call them. and yeah, we’ve we absolutely discussed separating and we own a home together and everything, and it is a long path to go down to separate. So we have decided to stay together and like we’ve told each other so many times, like everything else is so great. we

Ep 213 (23:24.974)
Do we have so many of the same like I we have so many of the same hobbies, we love each other so much. Like everything is so great. We’re each other’s best friends. Everything is so, so, so great except this one aspect. And so we we always decide, like, okay, it’s not it’s not worth giving all of that up just for this one little piece. which always gave me hope, but at the same time, like every time we would have that fight.

I would think about it for the next three weeks, four weeks, five weeks, and we would have the conversation one time for two hours. And five weeks later I’d be thinking about it at work every day. So it’s it was really long lasting for me and something that I still felt really, really, really strong on fixing, even though like we did think that we did have the conversation that we’d stay together through it all, but there’s always the fear that like

my gosh, is he gonna look elsewhere? Or my gosh, like in 10 years is like this gonna be a different conversation. Yeah, and I I understand the particular confusion and fear when you’re young and this happens. Cause, you know, I got married when I was 17 and I really didn’t like sex right from the get-go, and it was really confusing. Cause normally you hear,

You don’t like sex like ten years into your relationship or when you have kids or menopause or whatever. And did you also you’re nodding your head, you also feel similar. Yeah. Yeah. I didn’t know if I would fit in super well to the group just because I I did feel so young. Like maybe there was you know, maybe there was something that I’m missing, you know, maybe maybe I’m asexual or something. honestly.

cross my mind. So yeah. Yeah. I but I just I’m so glad you came on the podcast to share your story because I think often what we hear is, it’s because we had kids, because we had kids, because we had kids, and that’s sort of the same story over and over again. And I love it when we have people on the podcast who don’t have kids because I can see, see, it happens in all ages and all timelines. And the common denominator is culture.

Ep 213 (25:45.678)
common denominator is a lack of safety. Yeah. So, so what what were your big takeaways from the program? well, safety is definitely the biggest one for me. And it also like all of the culture stuff felt really, really important to me. in the realm of like helping out the future generations.

I I don’t have kids, but it feels so important to me to share everything that’s wrong with culture. and to share everything I’ve learned because I just it it’s crazy just what kids are going still going through. It’s it’s really crazy. It’s honestly unbelievable. All of the culture stuff was shocking and feels just like incredibly important to me outside of my relationship, which was really, really cool.

And inside my relationship, like the safety thing. but I really I told my husband this so many times. Like I feel like I was just knocking on a wall, like there wasn’t even a door to open. I was just knocking on a wall, trying all these different things. And I just needed to bring him into it. Like, and we did try couples therapy, but it wasn’t, I don’t know, they don’t have like the best, we didn’t go to like the best sex therapist ever. So it was like

not the best recommendations ever. and so I really feel like bringing him into it helped so much. And I constantly said before the program, I just think he doesn’t understand. I would tell my therapist, I’d cry to her, I I just think he doesn’t get it. I just I don’t know how to explain. I don’t have words. I can’t get it out. I don’t I just don’t know how to make him understand. and doing it together really helped him understand. and

Yeah, it’s cool that like things are focused on me now a little more. And I think that that’s really exciting. So like looking back, because I can I can feel, I can hear the listeners and thinking, okay, yeah, but like what changed? Like did she have a big aha moment? Did she have you know, because you struggle with this for so many years and you’re trying different therapists and stuff? So looking back at your experience.

Ep 213 (28:11.163)
like can you say like what happened?

Ep 213 (28:19.36)
I think I really think my husband understanding helped me so much and helped me feel so much more comfortable to be able to like I’ve told him so many things that I’ve never told him in my life. He’s asked me so many questions he’s he’s never asked me in our relationship. And I’ve feel just like super open and safe. And I

I I mean we’re so early on after the class, like our XDs are still pretty basic. So I don’t know, like I there’s no magic pill. It there’s not. You’re right when you say that. it’s I I think just being able to have open conversations with him when I thought I did that before, but just being able to have him understand or

Have a side of him that maybe understands a little better. is has made our relationship so much more open and capable of things. And he’s just there’s there’s no pressure there anymore. He understands now that he can’t put the pressure there because nothing good will happen. So there’s no pressure there anymore, which has relieved so much from my shoulders. if I have a hard day at work, it’s like,

Sweet. I don’t even to think. I don’t even have to think about that. I don’t even have to think about sex at all. Like that’s awesome. Yeah. You should see her face. It’s so great. Yeah. That is I love that you’ve shared that because we do think men understand. But how can they when they really live in a different world? There’s no concept for them really in terms of when we say safety.

really hard for them to understand what that’s like to go as a woman in the world. literally every sexual experience you had basically was one of pressure and coercion. There wasn’t even one that was based off of something that you were interested in or excited about or curious about or having fun and joy around. And everything was a a duty and also wrapped in this real

Ep 213 (30:43.47)
toxic shame and and guilt around the religious piece as well. So no wonder, you know, and then and then we’re off diagnosing women with low libido or a low sex drive when we’re like we we didn’t stand a chance. We just didn’t even have the environment in which we could even explore any sort of pleasure. So yeah, it it’s basic stuff. but it’s it’s really important. What are you what are you looking forward to as you think about moving forward with your

with your own sexual health and your own relationship to your sexuality.

Yeah, I’m I’m just looking forward to I’m looking forward to looking forward to sex or just like anything even close to it. I am excit I said before the class like I’d be static static if I could just look forward to sex like once a month. so that’s what I’m looking forward to. And I also like I feel

really empowered with my own body. I feel empowered as a woman now too. I feel empowered as a friend and a daughter to tell my friends, tell my family about everything. And I I really want to help people with everything. but I do feel personally like really empowered to be able to say no, which I’ve been told as a little girl I needed to do. And

Always thought I did. and yeah, it’s been really, really empowering. And I think I’m gonna become a lot closer with who I am. Loved the wall of Volva camp. I’m gonna, I really am so excited to get like a cast for personal like at home cast. So excited. So cool. Have you looked into it?

Ep 213 (32:43.986)
Yeah, I’m really excited. I was I’m excited once I think I move on from this like portion of life, I wanna do it as like a memorial type thing. so yeah. Looking for Let me let me tell the let me tell the listeners what you’re saying what you’re talking about. So yeah, there was an artist who d took a group of consenting women.

Who wanted to do this because they wanted to be able to show the world the diversity. He originally called them vaginas, but he changed it to vulva because that’s the accurate term of the female body. And so there’s actually an art display and they did also a wall of penises, but men typically see other penises because of like locker rooms and showers and stuff.

So it’s it it’s something that I show to the participants of doing it together. just sort of a a digital picture of it. So that’s what Carrie is talking about in terms of doing it for her own body. Yeah, it’s kind of fun. You gotta look through it and you kinda see if you can find your own one in there. There’s a lot of piercings, I will say, because I think those those women who are comfortable with their bodies in order to do that will probably be decorating their fulball a little bit more.

Carrie, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. This is a great conversation. Was there anything that we didn’t get to that you wanted to talk about? I think we got to everything. Just wanted to, yeah, extend my thank you for me and my husband again. I know it’s been already times before, but thank you again for everything you’ve done and everything you’ve shared. And please just like get into schools. If you could do anything for me, get into schools. I would love it.

We can we can join forces and you can reach the younger folks. All right, thank you everyone for listening right to the end and we’ll talk to you in the next one. Bye for now.